Talk:Historical rankings of presidents of the United States

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Update to first table, edit request

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Extended content
Political party	APSA 2024^[1] ^[2]	Siena 2022^[3]	C-SPAN 2021^[4]	Siena 2018^[5]	APSA 2018^[6]	C-SPAN 2017^[7]	PHN 2016^[8]	APSA 2015^[9]	USPC 2011^[10]	Siena 2010^[11]^[12]	C-SPAN 2009^[13]	Times 2008^[14]	WSJ 2005^[15]	Siena 2002	WSJ 2000	C-SPAN 2000	Schl. 1996^[16]	R-McI 1996^[17]	Siena 1994	Siena 1990	Siena 1982	CT 1982	M-B 1982	Schl. 1962^[18]	Schl. 1948

Demigoob (talk) 03:53, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question: what exactly are we supposed to do with this? M.Bitton (talk) 16:09, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See earlier consensus on not doing this. — kwami (talk) 00:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the charts are impossible to negotiate, on my machine at least, and I doubt that I'm alone. It's wider than the available window, and the sideways scrollbar is at the bottom of the chart. This means I can't find a president partway down the chart and see his score in columns the right-hand part of the chart, including the overall score. Koro Neil (talk) 06:26, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

we'll see what we can do, but I'm having trouble getting tables to work properly myself. — kwami (talk) 02:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've set the tables to be scrollable with fixed headers rather than static. See how that works on your devise. It can be disabled (link at top left) if you don't like it. — kwami (talk) 03:42, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Cite error: The named reference Chappell was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Carter, Brandon; Vaughn, Justin (February 19, 2024). "How Does Trump Stack Up Against the Best — and Worst — Presidents?". NYTimes.com. The New York Times. Retrieved July 25, 2024.
^ "Siena College Research Institute: 2022 Survey of U.S. Presidents: Presidents Rank Over Time" (PDF). Archived (PDF) from the original on July 7, 2023. Retrieved June 23, 2022.
^ "Presidential Historians Survey 2021". C-SPAN. Archived from the original on July 3, 2021. Retrieved June 30, 2021.
^ "Presidents 2018 Rank by Category" (PDF). Archived (PDF) from the original on August 9, 2021. Retrieved February 19, 2019.
^ Cite error: The named reference How Does Trump Stack Up Against the Best—and Worst—Presidents? was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ "Total Scores/Overall Rankings". Presidential Historians Survey 2017. C-SPAN. Archived from the original on March 1, 2017. Retrieved February 17, 2017.
^ Cite error: The named reference PHN was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference Brandon Rottinghaus was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ United States Presidency Centre, UK Survey of US Presidents: Results: Total Scores and Overall Ranking Archived September 29, 2021, at the Wayback Machine
^ "Rushmore Plus One; FDR joins Mountainside Figures Washington, Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln as Top Presidents" Archived July 7, 2015, at the Wayback Machine. Siena Research Institute. July 1, 2010.
^ Thomas, G. Scott (July 1, 2010). "Clean sweep for the Roosevelts". Business First of Buffalo. Archived from the original on July 4, 2010. Retrieved September 1, 2010.
^ "Lincoln Wins: Honest Abe tops new presidential survey". CNN. February 16, 2009. Archived from the original on April 4, 2021. Retrieved October 30, 2010.
^ Nico Hines (October 31, 2008). "The Greatest US Presidents: The Times US presidential rankings". The Times. Archived from the original on August 10, 2021. Retrieved August 10, 2021.
Print version of top 14: Ben MacIntyre (1 November 2008) "The big question: who is the greatest president of all time?" The Times. London. p. 42.
^ Cite error: The named reference Wall Street Journal Online was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference schles96 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Rating the Presidents: A Ranking of U.S. leaders, from the Great and Honorable to the Dishonest and Incompetent Archived January 3, 2021, at the Wayback Machine. 2000. ISBN 0806521511.
^ Cite error: The named reference Schlesinger, Arthur M pp. 12 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

War mongers on the top of the list

the list of those presidents placed on the top are more of blood thirsty war initiators.

The question is who paid the polls to make such a bias towards wars? 2001:8F8:1661:FAFF:8C75:4250:CD94:8A61 (talk) 09:10, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I question your assessment based on the overall 2022 Siena College rankings.

Regarding the top twelve:

The US only went to war under Franklyn D. Roosevelt after it was attacked by Japan.
There were no significant conflicts under the Washington, Jefferson, Madison, or Obama administrations.
Aside from the end of the Korean War with the October 1953 armistice, a war that started under Truman, there was no major war under the Eisenhower administration, although there were covert actionss in the Congo, Guatemala, Iran, & Iraq.
The Kennedy administration had no involvement in any major wars, although there were many conflicts. See Foreign policy of the John F. Kennedy administration.
The Lincoln, Madison, Truman, & Johnson each had significant wars that started under them.

Of other presidents that had significant wars or conflicts, the overall 2022 Siena College rating has Wilson at 13, Polk at 15, McKinley at 22nd, Nixon at 28, & George W. Bush at 35th.

Since only a third of the top twelve ranked had initiated wars in which a foreign power did not start the wary, your assertion that those presidents placed on the top are more of blood thirsty war initiators seems faulty. Furthermore, your comment seems to violate the WP:OR, WP:NPOV, MOS:CONTENTIOUS, & WP:FORUM policies & guidelines. Peaceray (talk) 18:00, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

45/47 edit?

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Should we change the 45 to 45/47 for Trump's numbering and add a footnote/edit the Cleveland footnote? NoLongerBreathedIn (talk) 14:05, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Shadow311 (talk) 21:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that a ranking performed at a specific point in time should include not only just those presidents that existed as of then, but also only what was known of them at the time. So rankings before now should only refer to 45. Future rankings that occur during or after the term of the 47th president, and take into account his performance during that term alongside his performance as the 45th president, could be referenced as 45/47. P.S. Apologies for not logging in; I can't remember my password and I'm not getting the reset email either. 2600:4809:C054:3700:E921:773:646C:915F (talk) 03:32, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about historical rankings, and the second Trump presidency isn't historical, it isn't even present-day yet. We need to wait and see how historians view the second term. If it's as much of a train-wreck as the first term, we would treat it the same way as we do Grover Cleveland. There is, however, a possibility that lessons learned during the first term might result in an effective second term presidency, in which case historians would rank the second term differently and then so should we. It's too soon to make such a decision. Either way, we shouldn't label it 45/47 because that implies a historian viewpoint that hasn't happened yet. Check back in 4 years. ~Anachronist (talk) 22:37, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As long as the rankings for Trump are for 45, that's the label we should use. Once we have rankings for him as 47, then we can change the label. — kwami (talk) 02:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Obama

Obama is consistently ranked top 3 My tightness (talk) 18:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can agree this needs to change

I understand why Lincoln’s predecessor was ranked the worst but I do not believe it’s the case anymore . I think 4 years we can confidently say Joe Biden is far worse. The country hasn’t been this divided since the 50’s 67.6.114.58 (talk) 00:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unless we get a new historical survey, nothing in this article is going to change. And after the complete failure of Donald Trump's presidency, Biden looks good by comparison. Dimadick (talk) 00:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Chappell-1] Cite error: The named reference Chappell was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[2] Carter, Brandon; Vaughn, Justin (February 19, 2024). "How Does Trump Stack Up Against the Best — and Worst — Presidents?". NYTimes.com. The New York Times. Retrieved July 25, 2024.

[3] "Siena College Research Institute: 2022 Survey of U.S. Presidents: Presidents Rank Over Time" (PDF). Archived (PDF) from the original on July 7, 2023. Retrieved June 23, 2022.

[2021_C-SPAN-4] "Presidential Historians Survey 2021". C-SPAN. Archived from the original on July 3, 2021. Retrieved June 30, 2021.

[5] "Presidents 2018 Rank by Category" (PDF). Archived (PDF) from the original on August 9, 2021. Retrieved February 19, 2019.

[How_Does_Trump_Stack_Up_Against_the_Best—and_Worst—Presidents?-6] Cite error: The named reference How Does Trump Stack Up Against the Best—and Worst—Presidents? was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[2017_C-SPAN-7] "Total Scores/Overall Rankings". Presidential Historians Survey 2017. C-SPAN. Archived from the original on March 1, 2017. Retrieved February 17, 2017.

[PHN-8] Cite error: The named reference PHN was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Brandon_Rottinghaus-9] Cite error: The named reference Brandon Rottinghaus was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[USPC-10] United States Presidency Centre, UK Survey of US Presidents: Results: Total Scores and Overall Ranking Archived September 29, 2021, at the Wayback Machine

[Siena_2010-11] "Rushmore Plus One; FDR joins Mountainside Figures Washington, Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln as Top Presidents" Archived July 7, 2015, at the Wayback Machine. Siena Research Institute. July 1, 2010.

[Thomas_3&CPISortType=&CPIorderBy-12] Thomas, G. Scott (July 1, 2010). "Clean sweep for the Roosevelts". Business First of Buffalo. Archived from the original on July 4, 2010. Retrieved September 1, 2010.

[13] "Lincoln Wins: Honest Abe tops new presidential survey". CNN. February 16, 2009. Archived from the original on April 4, 2021. Retrieved October 30, 2010.

[Times_Online-14] Nico Hines (October 31, 2008). "The Greatest US Presidents: The Times US presidential rankings". The Times. Archived from the original on August 10, 2021. Retrieved August 10, 2021.
Print version of top 14: Ben MacIntyre (1 November 2008) "The big question: who is the greatest president of all time?" The Times. London. p. 42.

[Wall_Street_Journal_Online-15] Cite error: The named reference Wall Street Journal Online was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[schles96-16] Cite error: The named reference schles96 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[books.google.com-17] Rating the Presidents: A Ranking of U.S. leaders, from the Great and Honorable to the Dishonest and Incompetent Archived January 3, 2021, at the Wayback Machine. 2000. ISBN 0806521511.

[Schlesinger,_Arthur_M_pp._12-18] Cite error: The named reference Schlesinger, Arthur M pp. 12 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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